DIALOGUES OF PLATO – Theaetetus
Socrates: Then wisdom and knowledge are the same?Theaetetus: yes
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 514
Socrates:
…the young will be more suitable, and they will improve more than I shall, for youth is always able to improve.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 514
Socrates:
No woman, … who is still able to conceive and bear, attends other women, but only those who are past bearing … Artemis, the goddess of childbirth is not a mother, and she honours those who are like herself; but she would not allow the barren to to be midwives; because human nature cannot know the mystery of an art without experience … and by the use of potions and incantations they are able to arouse the pangs and to soothe them all well.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
The same art which cultivates and gathers in the fruits of the earth, will be most likely to know in what soils the several plants or seeds should be deposited.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
I look after their souls when they are in labour, and not after their bodies; and the triumph of my art is in thoroughly examining whether the thought which the mind of the young man brings forth is a false idol or a noble and true birth. And, like the midwives, I am barren, and the reproach which is often made against me, that I ask questions of others and have as the wit to answer them myself, is very just – the reason is, that the god compels me to be a midwife but does not allow me to bring forth.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
… I am not myself at all wise, nor have I anything to show which is the invention or birth of my own soul, but hose who converse with me profit. Some of them appear dull enough at first, but afterwards, as our acquaintance ripens, if the god is gracious to them, they all make astonishing progress; and this in the opinion of others as well as in their own. It is quite clear that they never learned anything from me; the many fine discoveries to which they cling are of their own making.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
…many of then in their ignorance, either in their self-conceit despising me, or falling under the influence of others, have gone away too soon; and have not only lost the children of whom I had previously delivered them by an ill bringing up, but have stifled whatever else they had in them by evil communications, being fonder of lies and shams than of truth.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
The truants often return to me, and beg that I would consort with them again – they are ready to go to me on their knees – and then, if my familiar allows, which is not always the case, I receive them, and they begin to grow again.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516-7
Socrates:
For I have know some who were ready to bite me when I deprived them of a darling folly; they did not perceive that I acted from good will …but it would be wrong for me to admit falsehood, or to stifle the truth.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 517
Socrates:
…Protagoras …says …that things are to you such as they appear to you, and to me such as they appear to me…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 517
Socrates:
… things are said to be relative; you cannot rightly call anything by any name, such as great or small, heavy or light … for there is no single nothing or quality but out of motion and change and admixture all things are becoming relatively to one another, which “becoming” by us incorrectly called being, but is really called becoming, for nothing ever IS, but all things are becoming.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 517
Socrates:
And is not bodily habit spoiled by rest and idleness, but preserved for a long time by motion and exercise? Is not the soul informed and improved, and preserved by study and attention, which are motions; but when at rest … is uniformed, and speedily forgets whatever she has learned? … Then motion is good, and rest an evil, to the soul as well as to the body?
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 518
Socrates:
… nothing is self existent, and then we shall see that white, black, and every other colour arises out of the eye meeting the appropriate motion.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 518
Socrates:
…the disputer may trip up his opponent as often as he likes, and make fun, but the dialectician will be in earnest, and only correct his adversary when necessary. … I would recommend you … not to encourage yourself in the polemical and controversial temper, but to find out, in a friendly and congenial spirit, what we really mean…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 526
Socrates:
… everyone thinks himself wiser than other men in some things, and their inferior in others? In the hour of danger, when they are in perils, of war, or of the sea, or of sickness, do they not look up to their commanders as if they were gods, and expect salvation from them, only because they excel them in knowledge? Is not the world full of men in their several employments, who are looking for teachers and rulers of themselves and of the animals.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 527
and there are plenty who think they are able to teach and able to rule.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 527
Socrates:
His condition which has been that of a slave from his youth upwards, has deprived him of growth and uprightness and independence; dangers and fears, which were too much for his truth and honesty, came upon him in early years, when the tenderness of youth was unequal to them, and he has been driven into crooked ways; from the first he has practiced deception and retaliation, and has become stunted and warped. And so he has passed out of youth into manhood, having no soundness in him, and is now, as he think, a matter in wisdom. Such is the lawyer, Theodorus.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 528-9
Socrates:
Whether any event has turned out well or ill in the city, what disgrace may have descended to any one from his ancestors, male or female, are matters of which the philosopher no more knows than he can tell, as they say, how many pints are contained in the ocean.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
Neither is he conscious of his ignorance.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
For the philosopher is wholly unacquainted with his next-door neighbour; he is ignorant, not only of what he is doing, but he hardly knows whether he is a man or an animal; he is searching into the essence of man, and so busy in enquiring what belongs to such a nature to do or suffer different from any other;
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
…when he appears in a law-court, or in any place in which he has to speak of things which are at his feet and before his eyes, he is the jest… His awkwardness is fearful and give the impression of imbecility. When he is reviled, he has nothing personal to say in answer to the civilities of his adversaries, for he knows no scandals of any one, and they do not interest him; and therefore he is laughed at for his sheepishness; and when others are being praised and glorified, in the simplicity of his heart, he cannot help going into fits of laughter, so that he seems to be a downright idiot.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
… he observes that the great man is of necessity as ill mannered and uneducated as any shepherd – for he has no leisure, …
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
… and when they sing the praises of family and say that someone is a gentleman because he can show seven generations of wealthy ancestors, he thinks that their sentiments only betray a dull and narrow vision in those who utter them, and who are not educated enough to look at the whole, nor to consider that every man has had thousands and ten thousands of progenitors, and among them have been rich and poor kings and slaves, Hellens, and barbarians, innumerable. And when people pride themselves on having a pedigree of twenty-five ancestors, which goes back to Heracles, the son of Amphitryon, he cannot understand their poverty of ideas.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529 - 30
Socrates:
Why are they unable to calculate that Amphitryon had a twenty-fifth ancestor, who might have been anybody, and was such as fortune made him, and he had a fiftieth, and so on? He amuses himself with the notion that they cannot count and thinks that a little arithmetic would have got rid of their senseless vanity.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 530
Socrates:
But, O my friend, you cannot easily convince mankind that they should pursue virtue or avoid vice, not merely in order that a man may seem to be good, which is the reason given by the world, and in my judgment is only a repetition of an old wives’ fable. Whereas, the truth is that God is never in any way unrighteous – he is perfect righteousness ;and he of us who is the most righteous is most like him. Herein is seen the true cleverness of a man, and also his nothingness and want of manhood. For to know this is true wisdom and virtue…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 530
Socrates:
When an ordinary man thinks that he is going to have a fever, and …a physician, thinks the contrary, whose opinion is likely to prove right? …And the vinegrower, is a better judge of the sweetness or dryness of the vintage which is not yet gathered than the harp player? And in musical composition, the musician will know better than the training master… And the cook will be a better judge than the guest who is not a cook of the pleasure to be derived from the dinner which is in preparation…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 531
Socrates:
… to have knowledge … to possess knowledge … for example a man may buy and keep under his control a garment which he dose not wear then we should say, not that he has, but that he possesses the garment.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 542
Socrates:
We may suppose that the birds are kinds of knowledge and that when we were children, this receptacle was empty … he may be said to have learned or discovered the thing which is the subject of knowledge: and this is to know.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 542
Socrates:
And is the education of the harp player complete unless he can tell what string answers to a particular note, as any one would allow, are the elements or letters of music?
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 547
Vocabulary - DIALOGUES OF PLATO – Theaetetus
Polemical, pg. 526
Of or involving dispute; controversial, an argument or controversial discussion, a person inclined to argument.
Pugnacious, pg. 526
Given to fighting,; quarrelsome; combative
Pugilism – boxer, the art or practice of fighting with the fists
Pedantic, pg. 534
The act of educating, one who emphasizes trivial points of learning, showing a scholarship lacking in judgment, a narrow minded teacher who insists on exact adherence to rules.
Heterodoxy, pg. 537
The quality or fact of being heterodox, a heterodox belief or doctrine
Heterodox – departing from or opposed to the usual beliefs or established doctrines, especially in religion, unorthodox
Garrulity, pg. 541
To chatter, talking much, often about unimportant things loquacious
Scytal, pg. 549
(of traditions of Scythia? = an ancient region in SE Europe and Asia)
Benighted, pg. 549
Surrounded by darkness or night, intellectually or morally backward, unenlightened,
Socrates: Then wisdom and knowledge are the same?Theaetetus: yes
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 514
Socrates:
…the young will be more suitable, and they will improve more than I shall, for youth is always able to improve.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 514
Socrates:
No woman, … who is still able to conceive and bear, attends other women, but only those who are past bearing … Artemis, the goddess of childbirth is not a mother, and she honours those who are like herself; but she would not allow the barren to to be midwives; because human nature cannot know the mystery of an art without experience … and by the use of potions and incantations they are able to arouse the pangs and to soothe them all well.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
The same art which cultivates and gathers in the fruits of the earth, will be most likely to know in what soils the several plants or seeds should be deposited.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
I look after their souls when they are in labour, and not after their bodies; and the triumph of my art is in thoroughly examining whether the thought which the mind of the young man brings forth is a false idol or a noble and true birth. And, like the midwives, I am barren, and the reproach which is often made against me, that I ask questions of others and have as the wit to answer them myself, is very just – the reason is, that the god compels me to be a midwife but does not allow me to bring forth.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
… I am not myself at all wise, nor have I anything to show which is the invention or birth of my own soul, but hose who converse with me profit. Some of them appear dull enough at first, but afterwards, as our acquaintance ripens, if the god is gracious to them, they all make astonishing progress; and this in the opinion of others as well as in their own. It is quite clear that they never learned anything from me; the many fine discoveries to which they cling are of their own making.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
…many of then in their ignorance, either in their self-conceit despising me, or falling under the influence of others, have gone away too soon; and have not only lost the children of whom I had previously delivered them by an ill bringing up, but have stifled whatever else they had in them by evil communications, being fonder of lies and shams than of truth.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516
Socrates:
The truants often return to me, and beg that I would consort with them again – they are ready to go to me on their knees – and then, if my familiar allows, which is not always the case, I receive them, and they begin to grow again.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 516-7
Socrates:
For I have know some who were ready to bite me when I deprived them of a darling folly; they did not perceive that I acted from good will …but it would be wrong for me to admit falsehood, or to stifle the truth.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 517
Socrates:
…Protagoras …says …that things are to you such as they appear to you, and to me such as they appear to me…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 517
Socrates:
… things are said to be relative; you cannot rightly call anything by any name, such as great or small, heavy or light … for there is no single nothing or quality but out of motion and change and admixture all things are becoming relatively to one another, which “becoming” by us incorrectly called being, but is really called becoming, for nothing ever IS, but all things are becoming.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 517
Socrates:
And is not bodily habit spoiled by rest and idleness, but preserved for a long time by motion and exercise? Is not the soul informed and improved, and preserved by study and attention, which are motions; but when at rest … is uniformed, and speedily forgets whatever she has learned? … Then motion is good, and rest an evil, to the soul as well as to the body?
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 518
Socrates:
… nothing is self existent, and then we shall see that white, black, and every other colour arises out of the eye meeting the appropriate motion.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 518
Socrates:
…the disputer may trip up his opponent as often as he likes, and make fun, but the dialectician will be in earnest, and only correct his adversary when necessary. … I would recommend you … not to encourage yourself in the polemical and controversial temper, but to find out, in a friendly and congenial spirit, what we really mean…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 526
Socrates:
… everyone thinks himself wiser than other men in some things, and their inferior in others? In the hour of danger, when they are in perils, of war, or of the sea, or of sickness, do they not look up to their commanders as if they were gods, and expect salvation from them, only because they excel them in knowledge? Is not the world full of men in their several employments, who are looking for teachers and rulers of themselves and of the animals.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 527
and there are plenty who think they are able to teach and able to rule.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 527
Socrates:
His condition which has been that of a slave from his youth upwards, has deprived him of growth and uprightness and independence; dangers and fears, which were too much for his truth and honesty, came upon him in early years, when the tenderness of youth was unequal to them, and he has been driven into crooked ways; from the first he has practiced deception and retaliation, and has become stunted and warped. And so he has passed out of youth into manhood, having no soundness in him, and is now, as he think, a matter in wisdom. Such is the lawyer, Theodorus.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 528-9
Socrates:
Whether any event has turned out well or ill in the city, what disgrace may have descended to any one from his ancestors, male or female, are matters of which the philosopher no more knows than he can tell, as they say, how many pints are contained in the ocean.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
Neither is he conscious of his ignorance.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
For the philosopher is wholly unacquainted with his next-door neighbour; he is ignorant, not only of what he is doing, but he hardly knows whether he is a man or an animal; he is searching into the essence of man, and so busy in enquiring what belongs to such a nature to do or suffer different from any other;
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
…when he appears in a law-court, or in any place in which he has to speak of things which are at his feet and before his eyes, he is the jest… His awkwardness is fearful and give the impression of imbecility. When he is reviled, he has nothing personal to say in answer to the civilities of his adversaries, for he knows no scandals of any one, and they do not interest him; and therefore he is laughed at for his sheepishness; and when others are being praised and glorified, in the simplicity of his heart, he cannot help going into fits of laughter, so that he seems to be a downright idiot.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
… he observes that the great man is of necessity as ill mannered and uneducated as any shepherd – for he has no leisure, …
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529
Socrates:
… and when they sing the praises of family and say that someone is a gentleman because he can show seven generations of wealthy ancestors, he thinks that their sentiments only betray a dull and narrow vision in those who utter them, and who are not educated enough to look at the whole, nor to consider that every man has had thousands and ten thousands of progenitors, and among them have been rich and poor kings and slaves, Hellens, and barbarians, innumerable. And when people pride themselves on having a pedigree of twenty-five ancestors, which goes back to Heracles, the son of Amphitryon, he cannot understand their poverty of ideas.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 529 - 30
Socrates:
Why are they unable to calculate that Amphitryon had a twenty-fifth ancestor, who might have been anybody, and was such as fortune made him, and he had a fiftieth, and so on? He amuses himself with the notion that they cannot count and thinks that a little arithmetic would have got rid of their senseless vanity.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 530
Socrates:
But, O my friend, you cannot easily convince mankind that they should pursue virtue or avoid vice, not merely in order that a man may seem to be good, which is the reason given by the world, and in my judgment is only a repetition of an old wives’ fable. Whereas, the truth is that God is never in any way unrighteous – he is perfect righteousness ;and he of us who is the most righteous is most like him. Herein is seen the true cleverness of a man, and also his nothingness and want of manhood. For to know this is true wisdom and virtue…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 530
Socrates:
When an ordinary man thinks that he is going to have a fever, and …a physician, thinks the contrary, whose opinion is likely to prove right? …And the vinegrower, is a better judge of the sweetness or dryness of the vintage which is not yet gathered than the harp player? And in musical composition, the musician will know better than the training master… And the cook will be a better judge than the guest who is not a cook of the pleasure to be derived from the dinner which is in preparation…
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 531
Socrates:
… to have knowledge … to possess knowledge … for example a man may buy and keep under his control a garment which he dose not wear then we should say, not that he has, but that he possesses the garment.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 542
Socrates:
We may suppose that the birds are kinds of knowledge and that when we were children, this receptacle was empty … he may be said to have learned or discovered the thing which is the subject of knowledge: and this is to know.
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 542
Socrates:
And is the education of the harp player complete unless he can tell what string answers to a particular note, as any one would allow, are the elements or letters of music?
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, Theaetetus, pg. 547
Vocabulary - DIALOGUES OF PLATO – Theaetetus
Polemical, pg. 526
Of or involving dispute; controversial, an argument or controversial discussion, a person inclined to argument.
Pugnacious, pg. 526
Given to fighting,; quarrelsome; combative
Pugilism – boxer, the art or practice of fighting with the fists
Pedantic, pg. 534
The act of educating, one who emphasizes trivial points of learning, showing a scholarship lacking in judgment, a narrow minded teacher who insists on exact adherence to rules.
Heterodoxy, pg. 537
The quality or fact of being heterodox, a heterodox belief or doctrine
Heterodox – departing from or opposed to the usual beliefs or established doctrines, especially in religion, unorthodox
Garrulity, pg. 541
To chatter, talking much, often about unimportant things loquacious
Scytal, pg. 549
(of traditions of Scythia? = an ancient region in SE Europe and Asia)
Benighted, pg. 549
Surrounded by darkness or night, intellectually or morally backward, unenlightened,
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